Player desperately seeking failed powers check

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thekristhomas
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Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by thekristhomas »

I'll put it out there, I don't use powers checks often, they can feel heavy handed.

That being said, one of my players has been consistently low grade evil for some time, and what powers checks he has had to roll, he has passed. I suspect (knowing the player well) that he WANTS to fail at least one powers check to get an ability/disability, knowing that most of the early disabilities can be hidden/gotten around.

So I have decided that in the face of his continued acts, that he has in fact actually failed at least one powers check.

So the question is what Path of Corruption to send him down?

Firstly, I'm going to say that I'm not going to reward his behaviour, so I'm thinking the "good" bit is not something immediately noticeable and obvious, like claws, but should be something that is either highly conditional (e.g. free movement while underwater) or something that would require instruction (I'm struggling to think of an example, maybe a spell-like power?)

Also, it would be good if the curse could fit the crime, here's a list

Not really a crime, but, he has changed religion more than is decent, started as an Ezran, converted to Morninglord because that was the faith of the party's priest, converted to Eternal Order after contracting mummy rot because the party's priest couldn't cast cure disease (he went so far as to have the Iron Cross of the Eternal Order engraved on his armour), and has since returned to the Morninglord, because the party's priest agreed to start healing him again.

Made a pact with agents of Vlad Drakov. As a native Darkonian, this is a bit of a biggie. He owns a network of taverns across the core, which the group uses as a intelligence network and a useful cover when travelling, particularly in Falkovnia, where his inquiries into purchasing that nations ales lead to a meeting with the Minister for Trade, a deal was negotiated, and his chain of bars is now supplied with the finest lagers the core has to offer. Not evil or a crime, but the Minister suggested that such large shipments of beer would be at risk, and maybe extra security was required, long story short, the PC has hired several units of Talons on an on-going basis as security for his beer-barges, and the small Darkonian village he is from now has a militia of Falkovnian mercenaries fortifying it.

Also, he lead a small army of Talon mercenaries, obtained through his beer-hall connections in the Ministry of Trade, against Duke Gundar. While the adventure ended with Gundar dead, every mercenary was either killed, or transformed into a goblyn. As Gundar died, I'm guessing the Kingsfuhrer would see it as a victory (it was never intended to be a conquest, so...) and is likely to knight the character next time he passes through Falkovnia. (IMC, the only place more explicitly evil than Falkovnia was Gundarak)

The slaughter of goblyns. This would not normally be a bad thing, goblyns are evil vicious creatures, however, as mentioned above these goblyns were for the most part, transformed soldiers who had been under his command. Now, he was not responsible for the transformation, but he did make the decision to kill them all after they had been transformed. Again, this is generally not an evil act but, the goblyns were all contained within a secure location under the care of a doctor who felt sure that given time, he could reverse the process. Also he performed the killing in secret, without discussing it with the group, justifying that it was "too big a risk", which may very well be true.

The killing of a Dhampir. Again, there are times when killing a Dhampir is the right thing to do, this was not one of them. This dhampir was the doctor who I mentioned earlier, and this guy was responsible for the goblyns, and it absolutely horrified him. One of the few genuinely good characters the group have met he was determined to undo his mistake and return the goblyns to humanity. When the PC killed all the goblyns, the doctor immediately forgave him, apologizing for putting his own need for redemption ahead of public safety. The following night the PC snuck into the doctor/dhampir's room and killed him, again in secret with no discussion with the group.

helped create a vampire. The PC seemed surprised when the doctor continued to be a character after the killing, having really not got dhampir.

Those are the main ones, in general the PC makes almost all roleplaying decisions based on what he thinks will lead to combat the quickest, or gain favour with an authority (whether it's Van Richten or the Kargat)

So, help a fellow sadist out :twisted: what should I make him become?
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Rock of the Fraternity
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by Rock of the Fraternity »

I'd say... the Path of the Spider.

This guy is constructing moral holes for himself to fall into, like a spider weaving its web.

At its apex, you could transform him into a malformed, drider-like creature.
Here and now, at the start? Give him the power to spin silk from his hands, but not sticky silk and he can't shoot it like a giant spider shoots its web. And make him unable to STOP spinning. The silk should have low monetary value.

If he keeps setting himself up to Fall, change his diet so he can only eat live insects and all other food makes him violently ill...
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by The Lesser Evil »

Whereas I would hesitate to make him automatically fail a powers check (that's the equivalent of an act of ultimate darkness, which I don't feel that has exactly been committed here), I'll give you my analyses of the method behind his madness. It seems like this guy is overly concerned with pragmatism before ideology; his heart is cold. He treats his allies and even his faith as tools to be switched out and discarded as the situation demands. He's not afraid of changing his colors at all either. Therefore, I would recommend two possible ways to transform into:

1) dread doppelganger; possible curses: uncontrolled mind reading (to a distracting or injurious level when his corruption gets high enough) or being unable to disguise himself from a certain group or type of people

2)A golem (either flesh or mechanical) that can switch out body parts. His curse might start off with a hand that's very prone to falling off, but he could switch it out with specially made prostheses. Eventually as his corruption worsens (if he continues his shenanigans), he must regularly change out his body parts because they rot or rust away quickly. In addition, he eventually becomes a soulless construct unable to benefit from that clerical healing he once enjoyed so much.

Edit: if you wanted to go with a premade terror track instead of making up your own, there are 20 or so terror tracks in the Book of Shadows (netbook on Kargatane website) that use the Domains of Dread terror track style. The Skin Thief and the Wererat might be appropriate.
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by Ender »

I very much like the Doppelganger idea. The PC seems highgly opportunistic and definitely makes his morals as he goes. I'm with The Lesser Evil on the "probably shouldn't auto-fail a check" thing... but there's something else to consider. If you're certain the player wants to fail a check, then it's pretty much just like the option rule of starting with a single failed powers check. The player can choose to fail it at the start of their character. Additionally, though, here's the thing I always think about. From a meta-game perspective, is the player trying to fail a check for the benefit of an early ability and nothing more? Does he want the roleplaying aspects of the failed check or just the power? If it's just the mechanical benefit he wants, then here's what I'd do (and this is just me as I suspect others might not do this): I'd let him have it, but treat it sort of like the PLAYER failed the check, not the character. This is a little weird, but it's worked for my players. If a player is being greedy and wants the power, then the drawback of the failed check could reflect that. If he wants more power, make it easier for him to fail checks in the future (but legitimate checks, not freebies). Maybe along with his benefit, the likelihood of failing a check also increases. The player gets the power he wants but has already started down that slippery slope for the wrong reasons.

(Apologies if that was a little rambling and incoherent. I haven't had my morning coffee yet...)
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by alhoon »

I would present another option:

The Dark Powers are NOT the only ones punishing people.
Have a meddling Angel\cleric\aasimar strike him down with a hefty curse (equivalent of 3rd lost power check) with no benefit at all but since angels\such are assumed to "punish in order to correct", with a quite clear road to redemption. Something like "You'll be deaf till you give most of your ill-gained loot to the poor". A "modified" mark of Justice\bestow curse if you will.

I would expect the meddler to be booted from Ravenloft by the Dark powers since his actions may actually correct their wannabe-pawn by "force".
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by Drinnik Shoehorn »

Instead of Powers Checks, go with Transposition. Have him replaced by a demon or devil. His acts seem small and petty, as if provoking the DP, so chances are they'd ignore him. But a small, petty devil like an imp? Jump at the chance. And the fact that an imp isn't powerful means you can make the curse out weigh the benefit, making his attempt to play the system futile.

As an aside, is this disrupting your game and effecting you and your other players enjoyment?
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by thekristhomas »

Some really nice ideas so far, thanks :D

The doppelganger is what had occurred to me, partly because it seems like a lot of the abilities are things that would need some level of training, so he might already have an alter self spell like ability, but have no idea how to use it :twisted:
Drinnik Shoehorn wrote:As an aside, is this disrupting your game and effecting you and your other players enjoyment?
Not to a huge extent, there was a while when a player quit that was partly down to the competitive/metagaming way that the player in question is, but that was resolved. My group has been playing for about 15 years and they've all know each other since they were teens, I imagine that in a different group he'd annoy people, but that's not likely to happen.

Also I have to take some of the blame, I encourage a "diverse" group with sometimes opposing goals, which in the past has lead to a competitive dynamic that while providing some truly epic stories does tend towards group implosion/sudden yet inevitable betrayal. In my defense, I used to also run PARANOIA.
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

Honestly, the only power-check worthy thing I see in that list is killing the dhampir, in secret and in cold-blood. I might give an auto-fail for that alone. All the other stuff is certainly shady, but not outright evil (with the possible exception of killing the goblyns. If it were done with pure motives for the common good, that might be a bit mitigating but, a) the DPs don't usually care about good intentions and b) it seems more like he used good intentions as an excuse for killing for fun or expediency)

I like the doppelganger idea, but that's seems based more on the religion-swapping than the dhampir-killing. (for the religion-swapping, I would agree with alhoon, it's not a powers-check, but maybe a natural consequence, like the church hierarchy looking down on it and barring him from receiving healing, or perhaps the gods themselves showing their disgust by making their divine magic function poorly on him.)

The killings almost seem like a cat killing for fun. Maybe something in the paka/wereleopard vein?
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by thekristhomas »

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Honestly, the only power-check worthy thing I see in that list is killing the dhampir, in secret and in cold-blood. I might give an auto-fail for that alone. All the other stuff is certainly shady, but not outright evil (with the possible exception of killing the goblyns. If it were done with pure motives for the common good, that might be a bit mitigating but, a) the DPs don't usually care about good intentions and b) it seems more like he used good intentions as an excuse for killing for fun or expediency)

I like the doppelganger idea, but that's seems based more on the religion-swapping than the dhampir-killing. (for the religion-swapping, I would agree with alhoon, it's not a powers-check, but maybe a natural consequence, like the church hierarchy looking down on it and barring him from receiving healing, or perhaps the gods themselves showing their disgust by making their divine magic function poorly on him.)

The killings almost seem like a cat killing for fun. Maybe something in the paka/wereleopard vein?
I pretty much agree that most of just shady, I included it so everyone could get a "feel" of the character.

With regards the religion swapping, I've been trying to put him in the position where he needs to "present" a holy symbol to a vampire, then apply all the minuses to his roll, but so far he hasn't bit.

I like the cat person idea, my only reservation is that is the track I used on the same players last character.

As to the PCs motivations, IMO he's metagaming, he knows NPCs sometimes turn against the group, and he's trying to stop that happening.

How he would justify that in terms of his character would be that he's eliminating potential threats before they become actual threats
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

thekristhomas wrote:How he would justify that in terms of his character would be that he's eliminating potential threats before they become actual threats
Hmm... so he's appointed himself judge, jury, and executioner. Maybe something along the lines of path of the headsman? bonuses with axes and against helpless foes, but at the loss of his humanity (Hollow feat? Charisma penalty). The ability to cloak his face in a shadowy executioner's hood that give some sort of intimidation bonus?

I dunno, maybe I'm grasping too far here...
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Re: Player desperately seeking failed powers check

Post by Cromstar »

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:
thekristhomas wrote:How he would justify that in terms of his character would be that he's eliminating potential threats before they become actual threats
Hmm... so he's appointed himself judge, jury, and executioner. Maybe something along the lines of path of the headsman? bonuses with axes and against helpless foes, but at the loss of his humanity (Hollow feat? Charisma penalty). The ability to cloak his face in a shadowy executioner's hood that give some sort of intimidation bonus?

I dunno, maybe I'm grasping too far here...
This actually sounds pretty reasonable to me. His worst crimes are, by far, the killings he undertook because he saw a 'potential' threat...but he deliberately took care of them on the sly.

As an alternative to the headsman in particular, maybe the executioner in general? As a possible downside: he feels a compulsion to display the targets of his killings (specifically those done in secrecy from others) as a 'warning'...hanging from a tree, head on a pike, strung on the city walls, etc.
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