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Grand Conjunction Problems 
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Agent of the Fraternity
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
I planned to, I was just shocked when I started looking things up!

I know Azalin is supposed to be immensely powerful, but I think the high CR in the MM likely comes from a Lich that actually is gaining more spell power, unlike our friend...

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Wed Oct 14, 2015 12:21 pm
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
vachtor wrote:
I planned to, I was just shocked when I started looking things up!

I know Azalin is supposed to be immensely powerful, but I think the high CR in the MM likely comes from a Lich that actually is gaining more spell power, unlike our friend...


I can't say for later editions, but his original 2nd edition stats were definitely more powerful than the average lich. He's listed as a level 18 lich. So even if he can't learn any new spells anymore, he can still cast 34 spells per day. By comparison, the lich entry from the 2nd edition MM has stats roughly equivalent to an 11th level lich (though the only major difference in stats for liches are spell capability and magic items.


Wed Oct 14, 2015 3:26 pm
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
Cromstar wrote:
vachtor wrote:
I planned to, I was just shocked when I started looking things up!

I know Azalin is supposed to be immensely powerful, but I think the high CR in the MM likely comes from a Lich that actually is gaining more spell power, unlike our friend...


I can't say for later editions, but his original 2nd edition stats were definitely more powerful than the average lich. He's listed as a level 18 lich. So even if he can't learn any new spells anymore, he can still cast 34 spells per day. By comparison, the lich entry from the 2nd edition MM has stats roughly equivalent to an 11th level lich (though the only major difference in stats for liches are spell capability and magic items.

Actually, there's a line in the lich entry saying in the 2e MM, "They were originally wizards of at least 18th level."


Thu Oct 15, 2015 12:52 pm
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
The Lesser Evil wrote:
Cromstar wrote:
vachtor wrote:
I planned to, I was just shocked when I started looking things up!

I know Azalin is supposed to be immensely powerful, but I think the high CR in the MM likely comes from a Lich that actually is gaining more spell power, unlike our friend...


I can't say for later editions, but his original 2nd edition stats were definitely more powerful than the average lich. He's listed as a level 18 lich. So even if he can't learn any new spells anymore, he can still cast 34 spells per day. By comparison, the lich entry from the 2nd edition MM has stats roughly equivalent to an 11th level lich (though the only major difference in stats for liches are spell capability and magic items.

Actually, there's a line in the lich entry saying in the 2e MM, "They were originally wizards of at least 18th level."


Hrrrm. Yeah there is, I have no idea how I missed that. Probably b/c I was looking for spell stats, and failing that just looked at the stat table. Didn't seem to really fit an 18th level wizard-turned undead super-wizard.


Fri Oct 16, 2015 9:47 pm
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Agent of the Fraternity
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
Question related to another thread that just popped up on here...

Following the events of Feast of Goblyns, how inappropriate do you think it would be for Harkon to allow the players a "safe haven" of sorts at the Old Kartakan Inn? Maybe in partial thanks for foiling the scheme of his daughter and ridding his country of the artifact. This would only be the illusion of safety, would likely only last until Harkon got bored, and likely would only happen if the party hasn't stayed at the Inn and seen its nightly "entertainment"...

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Mon Oct 19, 2015 4:24 pm
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
vachtor wrote:
Question related to another thread that just popped up on here...

Following the events of Feast of Goblyns, how inappropriate do you think it would be for Harkon to allow the players a "safe haven" of sorts at the Old Kartakan Inn? Maybe in partial thanks for foiling the scheme of his daughter and ridding his country of the artifact. This would only be the illusion of safety, would likely only last until Harkon got bored, and likely would only happen if the party hasn't stayed at the Inn and seen its nightly "entertainment"...

If Harkon learns how capable the PC's are in defeating Radaga, he way wish to keep them close under the guise of friendship all the while learning about the PC's weaknesses until they outlive their usefulness to him.


Mon Oct 19, 2015 6:34 pm
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
Yeah, I can't imagine Harkon wanting powerful, Darklord defeating, PCs hanging out in his den of reasons to hunt me down and kill me.

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Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:17 am
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
The reason I like the idea is that if they don't know who Harkon really is yet, it follows my theme of the party being pawns in a much larger game by much more powerful people. Even if they kill him, he can just move to a local wolf and keep observing them.

When we get to Roots of Evil, it would be great if they met up with him randomly for him to thank them for releasing him from his prison. Really hit home on what their actions have caused and the horrors they have unleashed onto an unsuspecting world...

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Tue Oct 20, 2015 9:46 am
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
I get that, and I may even have them fight him, but when they kill him, it won't be because he wants it that way.

And even in my very role-play heavy group, PCs, even if they couldn't "kill" Lucas forever, can kill hordes of wolfweres in the inn and burn the place down. :lucas:

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Tue Oct 20, 2015 2:44 pm
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
Also, I should mention that after a long long long hiatus and a mini adventure to observe the past, my party is finally about to start Feast of Goblyns tomorrow night!

Following the events at the end of Ship of Horror, my party was swallowed up by the mists. While wandering they stumbled upon a Vistana vardo next to a campfire. An old woman introduced herself as Madame Eva and told them to drink their tea. Upon drinking they passed out and started a mini adventure.

The mini-adventure allowed them to observe a thief named Julio and his thug friends trying to pull a heist on Hazlik's tower. Two of them died horribly in the attempt, while Julio and a mage friend managed to escape with a mysterious amulet. Julio unfortunately met with a bad end when the amulet caused him to fade into the ethereal and cease to exist. The mage friend, sold off the amulet and fled the country to parts unknown...

Upon waking, they will be given a reading from Madame Eva who will then depart and leave them as the mists clear. They will find themselves on the road into Harmonia...

Things of note planned for our first session:

- one of the PCs has rolled a new character whom they will meet up with (the mage friend from the mini-adventure)
- they will meet up with a member of the Eternal Order whom they have met before, he will take a dangerous spell book off of their hands and advise them to seek out another member of his order to join them
- they will complete the jailhouse section of the adventure and meet Akriel
- if all goes to plan, they will be on the road to Skald when we wrap up...

This will also be the first official time that I am DMing in 5e and the first time that they have used their main characters after conversion. Really looking forward to it...

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Tue Oct 20, 2015 4:15 pm
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
Quinntonia wrote:
I get that, and I may even have them fight him, but when they kill him, it won't be because he wants it that way.

And even in my very role-play heavy group, PCs, even if they couldn't "kill" Lucas forever, can kill hordes of wolfweres in the inn and burn the place down. :lucas:

Why not have them just defeat Harkon and his minions and just take over the Old Kartakan Inn as the new owners?
Question 1. If the Pc's used the spell conjure animal to summon Wolves are they brought from the surrounding countryside or just "created"?
Question 2. If someone was to kill Harkon while this spell was in effect and Harkon possessed one of the conjured wolves. What would happen to him if the spell ended while he was possessing one of these conjured wolves? would he die forever or just immediately "transfer" to the nearest "local" wolf?


Wed Oct 21, 2015 3:17 am
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
I've always played summoning as the animals coming from the surrounding area, but the rules suggest that they pop into existence.

As far as controlling conjured animals in Kartakass, the Darklord can override anything you want to do, IMHO.

And further, I don't see taking over a former Darklord lair as very "Ravenloft-y."

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:10 am
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
Quinntonia wrote:
I've always played summoning as the animals coming from the surrounding area, but the rules suggest that they pop into existence.

As far as controlling conjured animals in Kartakass, the Darklord can override anything you want to do, IMHO.

And further, I don't see taking over a former Darklord lair as very "Ravenloft-y."

I was under the impression that if a darklord died then the their domain was destroyed too? Or whomever kills the darklord must take their place?


Wed Oct 21, 2015 9:37 am
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
jimjams wrote:
I was under the impression that if a darklord died then the their domain was destroyed too? Or whomever kills the darklord must take their place?


From the FoS FAQ:

What happens when a domain lord dies?

Generally one of three things:

- The domain disappears (most likely with smaller Island-type domains).
- A nearby domain absorbs the land (as occurred with Gundarak during the Grand Conjunction).
- Some other evil being in the domain takes over the Lordship (as occurred in Richemulot and Invidia). This is not necessarily the most evil or powerful person, but the person with the most potential for evil deeds who has also succumbed to temptation.

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 10:16 am
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Post Re: Grand Conjunction Problems
Thanks Joel, you beat me to it.

In Kartakass, it is exceptionally difficult to kill the Darklord, of course, as he just takes another body, as well.

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Wed Oct 21, 2015 4:44 pm
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