Building a Collection

[galladril]

I apologize, in advance, for what is sure to be a lengthy post, so I hope you all stick with me.

I am going to preface this post by saying: I am an old-schooler, I have VERY little desire for anything past 2nd edition. I will not turn this into an edition war, as I want people to play what they enjoy playing, but for me, anything post 2nd edition is an "afterthought," not a necessity.

I have been playing / DMing D&D for the majority of my life, and while I have run my friends through a few Ravenloft modules, I have never actually run a Ravenloft Campaign.

There was just always something dark, and mysterious about the Lands behind the Mists, so I collected what little I could afford, which wasn't very much (being about 10 years old at the time,) even if I knew, somewhere deep inside, that I would never actually play it.

As I grew older, my collection began to grow, and I continued to add to it, but my desires changed. I moved from trying to get the "Top 30 Adventures," then shifted to Planescape for a while, then went after the "true" rares (Chainmail, White Box + Supplements, Dragon#1, etc.)

I recently attended Gencon for the 40th Anniversary of D&D. Maybe it was the lack of 1st, and 2nd that I saw available (let's face it, it's an out of print product that no one is really making money on anymore,) but something jump-started my desire to get moving on my Ravenloft collection.

I have compiled a spreadsheet of Ravenloft products (thank you FoS for that,) and basically sorted everything by date, trying to focus on the oldest stuff first, but I am aware that certain things should probably be bid on first, and that there is an abundance of some materials.

As it stands, I am in possession of the following:

i6 - Ravenloft
i10 - House on Gryphon Hill
Black Box - Realm of Terror (Got lucky at a garage sale - was still in shrink)
Ravenloft Limited Edition Handbook (2031/3000)
Domains of Dread
Castles Forlorn
Nightmare Lands
RA1 - Feast of Goblyns (Missing the cover poster, sadly)
RA2 - Ship of Horrors
RA3 - Touch of Death
RM1 - Roots of Evil
RM4 - House of Strahd
RQ2 - Thoughts of Darkness
RR2 - Book of Crypts
RR4 - Islands of Terror
All Van Richten's Guides except Fiends
Vecna Reborn

Now, for people who know the release dates on these like the back of their hand, you will see that I really am focusing on these by date of release, but maybe I should adjust my strategy a little bit. I really want to get the Grand Conjunction series done, first, though.

So, here come the questions:

1) From a collecting standpoint, which items do you consider to be the absolute rarest gems? The ones I am currently aware of are:

Tarokka Deck
Players Guide to the Living Death
Masque of the Red Death
Bleak House
Requiem: Grim Harvest Boxed Set
Carnival
Gaz V

2) Players Guide to the Living Death - what is this, exactly??? The prices it commands are pretty high, and its only a 32 page book. Now, I have no problem paying a hefty sum for something cool, but there is actually very little researchable material on this (and TRUST me when I say I have looked!!!) I'm assuming it is a tournament module (which a print run would have been incredibly limited on,) but if it isn't even an "official" release, my interest in it will wane, slightly.

3) With an ultimate goal of "wanting it all," and KNOWING that it will take years to get, what would YOU focus on?

4) Is there anything I need to watch out on (from an ebay sale) that will make something "incomplete?" Aka - FoG came with a screen, a sheet, the module itself, maps, and the poster.)

Thanks, in advance, all - it really is appreciated.

~Galladril~

[Joël of the FoS]

1) From a collecting standpoint, which items do you consider to be the absolute rarest gems? The ones I am currently aware of are:

Tarokka Deck
Players Guide to the Living Death
Masque of the Red Death
Bleak House
Requiem: Grim Harvest Boxed Set
Carnival
Gaz V

rarest? or most useful for a RL DM ?

Rarest, I think you are aiming at the 3e tarokka deck. Very cool.

Most useful? get Gaz V and Carnival !

Joël

[Dark Angel]

Tarokka Deck
Players Guide to the Living Death
Masque of the Red Death
Bleak House
Requiem: Grim Harvest Boxed Set
Carnival
Gaz V

First and foremost, I am also an old school gamer and (with the exception of book purchases) will not go to 3rd or 4th editions (we shall see about 5th) as my group and I are still happy with our Frankenstein's Monster of AD&D. Wooo ThAC0!

Masque of the Red Death is not too useful if you are running a solid Domains of Dread/Black Box/Red Box game. Unless you are moving up technology in the Northwestern Core (Lamordia, Richemulot, Dementlieu, etc.) I would back burner that.

Bleak House is nice and has wonderful maps and details, but can be too limiting to run (as it has to be before his death). The environments can still be used as I have been thinking about running a Resident Evil-style adventure in the joint. It's really cool, but not too flexible as is.

The Grim Harvest Box set (and the two prequel adventures) are OK. If you are planning on running that particular series of adventure Azalin's latest attempt for escape. I find that the rules for conversion of 2nd edition PCs into undead are flawed and (if I were to use it) would rely more on common sense and use the Van Richten Guides for better conversion. Much like the Bleak House, it is really good if you are planning on sending your vict- er... players through those events.

Carnival and Gaz V are musts as they are both very informative and Carnival is very flexible to use. It contains many, multilevel adventures that can (and should) be sprinkled into a Ravenloft Campaign. Gaz V is a great resource and I have all five and use them a lot. If you are not thinking about sending your players to Nova Vaasa, Tepest (and Castle Island), Keening, and the Shadow Rift, then they are not imperative. But if you are taking PCs, NPCs, etc from those areas, they are still viable resources.

Tarokka Deck & Players Guide to the Living Death are two items I don't have and am not going to comment on. The Red Box came with a deck, but I can only assume that is much nicer. I use the Red Box deck and have been perfectly satisfied with its deck.

Hopefully this helps and feel free to ask further inquiries or seek clarifications.

[Dark Angel]

And if you hadn't already found them out, the online magazine Quoth the Raven and the many netbooks are also really great resources for adventures, NPCs, and domain details.

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

I am going to preface this post by saying: I am an old-schooler, I have VERY little desire for anything past 2nd edition. I will not turn this into an edition war, as I want people to play what they enjoy playing, but for me, anything post 2nd edition is an "afterthought," not a necessity.

Understood, though as you probably know, there are several of the 3e products that have "fluff" that can easily be applied to 2e, even if you don't use the "crunch" at all. Chief among these are the Gaz's, and of course the Tarroka Deck is edition-independent completely, even though it was published in the 3e line.

FYI, I don't know how tied you are to physical copies (I know I am, but some don't care) but drivethrurpg has many of the old 2e products available for purchase as .pdf's.

Tarokka Deck
Players Guide to the Living Death
Masque of the Red Death
Bleak House
Requiem: Grim Harvest Boxed Set
Carnival
Gaz V

Tarokka deck for sure. I was lucky enough to get it close to retail early on, but it's become quite pricey. The last few 3e books are similarly rare (not quite Tarokka deck levels, but up there): Gaz V, as you mentioned, as well as Dark Tales, and VRG Shadow Fey can command high prices.

Personally, I had a hard time getting Die Vecna Die at a price I was willing to pay. Ditto for the Limited Edition version of the 3e Campaign Setting, which I still haven't bit the bullet to get. I also had trouble with some of the minis, like the Witches, Gypsy Dancers and Denizens of Ravenloft sets. Some of the novels have been quite pricey in the past, such as King of the Dead and Lord of the Necropolis, but I'm not sure if they still are. The TSR Gold map was given away for free, (that's how I got mine!) but then became very expensive on the secondary market.

Other extreme rarities:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleu ... rities.pdf

And then there are these:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/FAQ/FAQ_ ... adventures
and these:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Cat ... ving_Death
http://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Category:RPGA

And there are very few of these, if any, left:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/forum/vi ... f=1&t=7228
(Talon reported 3 left before Gencon. Don't know if he sold them there, but it's likely)

Players Guide to the Living Death - what is this, exactly???

It's not quite official, no. "Living Death" was the "Living" campaign of the RPGA for Masque, where you could play the same character at multiple cons and run through standardized modules that were part of a larger campaign. This Players guide would have been, well, a players guide, for that Campaign. So, it was never sold in stores, never truly "published." You can probably safely ignore it. (I know I am).

3) With an ultimate goal of "wanting it all," and KNOWING that it will take years to get, what would YOU focus on?

When I was building my collection, I focused on the "low hanging fruit" so to speak, going for volume, grabbing the cheap stuff first.

4) Is there anything I need to watch out on (from an ebay sale) that will make something "incomplete?" Aka - FoG came with a screen, a sheet, the module itself, maps, and the poster.)

That's tough to answer, since it varies greatly by product, but yeah, you can get burned that way. The only time it happened to me was a printing error: several copies of the Guide to Transylvania were misprinted with pages missing and other pages duplicated in their place.


Good luck and happy collecting!

[IrvyneWolfe]

Sigh Tarroka Deck... I lost mine during a move a few years back. Thing just up and vanished somewhere. It killed me that I was never able to find it again, and there's no way I can afford a new one.

Most of my collection was bought close to retail (3.x Products), or bought close enough to retail that the rare ones I was able to find through private internet dealers in the late 90s early 2000s. I don't have it all, but close enough where I'm quite proud of what I do have.

[galladril]

First, and foremost, thank you all for this. It's exactly what I was looking for, and you guys rock!

Most useful? get Gaz V and Carnival !

Joël

After doing a little bit of research, I think Carnival is a must-buy for me.

Masque of the Red Death is not too useful if you are running a solid Domains of Dread/Black Box/Red Box game. Unless you are moving up technology in the Northwestern Core (Lamordia, Richemulot, Dementlieu, etc.) I would back burner that.

Bleak House is nice and has wonderful maps and details, but can be too limiting to run (as it has to be before his death). The environments can still be used as I have been thinking about running a Resident Evil-style adventure in the joint. It's really cool, but not too flexible as is.

The Grim Harvest Box set (and the two prequel adventures) are OK. If you are planning on running that particular series of adventure Azalin's latest attempt for escape. I find that the rules for conversion of 2nd edition PCs into undead are flawed and (if I were to use it) would rely more on common sense and use the Van Richten Guides for better conversion. Much like the Bleak House, it is really good if you are planning on sending your vict- er... players through those events.

Carnival and Gaz V are musts as they are both very informative and Carnival is very flexible to use. It contains many, multilevel adventures that can (and should) be sprinkled into a Ravenloft Campaign. Gaz V is a great resource and I have all five and use them a lot. If you are not thinking about sending your players to Nova Vaasa, Tepest (and Castle Island), Keening, and the Shadow Rift, then they are not imperative. But if you are taking PCs, NPCs, etc from those areas, they are still viable resources.

Tarokka Deck & Players Guide to the Living Death are two items I don't have and am not going to comment on. The Red Box came with a deck, but I can only assume that is much nicer. I use the Red Box deck and have been perfectly satisfied with its deck.

Hopefully this helps and feel free to ask further inquiries or seek clarifications.

Dark Angel - this was really informative, and helpful. Thanks!

There are several of the 3e products that have "fluff" that can easily be applied to 2e, even if you don't use the "crunch" at all.

Sure, and even with rule changes, getting more of the "story" is always fun. Its part of the reason I like collecting multiple prints of the same books and stuff, if for nothing else, to scan to see where errata is located, or where page layouts changed. I know - I'm weird.

FYI, I don't know how tied you are to physical copies (I know I am, but some don't care) but drivethrurpg has many of the old 2e products available for purchase as .pdf's.

PDF copies are incredibly useful as DM tools. Dropbox+iPad (or other tablet) is a pretty powerful combination, especially for huge maps, or handouts. I like that I can select a single page, easily print it out, and cut out artwork to give to the players, and have them be able to visualize something "better." With that being said, I like print. Always have, always will.

Tarokka deck for sure. I was lucky enough to get it close to retail early on, but it's become quite pricey. The last few 3e books are similarly rare (not quite Tarokka deck levels, but up there): Gaz V, as you mentioned, as well as Dark Tales, and VRG Shadow Fey can command high prices.

Personally, I had a hard time getting Die Vecna Die at a price I was willing to pay. Ditto for the Limited Edition version of the 3e Campaign Setting, which I still haven't bit the bullet to get. I also had trouble with some of the minis, like the Witches, Gypsy Dancers and Denizens of Ravenloft sets. Some of the novels have been quite pricey in the past, such as King of the Dead and Lord of the Necropolis, but I'm not sure if they still are. The TSR Gold map was given away for free, (that's how I got mine!) but then became very expensive on the secondary market.

For those interested, D.V.D. is actually on ebay right now, BIN of ~45ish. My Limited Ed I went through Amazon for, and got a pretty minty copy for around 40. The novels I DO care about, but not until I get the more "game-usable" items.

Other extreme rarities:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/Mausoleu ... rities.pdf
And then there are these:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/FAQ/FAQ_ ... adventures
and these:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Cat ... ving_Death
http://fraternityofshadows.com/wiki/Category:RPGA

THAT is the kinda stuff that make my fangs grow. *VERY* cool.

And there are very few of these, if any, left:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/forum/vi ... f=1&t=7228
(Talon reported 3 left before Gencon. Don't know if he sold them there, but it's likely)

Yeah, I actually JUST saw those, here, yesterday. I'm pretty sure I missed the boat.

Players Guide to the Living Death - what is this, exactly???

It's not quite official, no. "Living Death" was the "Living" campaign of the RPGA for Masque, where you could play the same character at multiple cons and run through standardized modules that were part of a larger campaign. This Players guide would have been, well, a players guide, for that Campaign. So, it was never sold in stores, never truly "published." You can probably safely ignore it. (I know I am).

3) With an ultimate goal of "wanting it all," and KNOWING that it will take years to get, what would YOU focus on?

When I was building my collection, I focused on the "low hanging fruit" so to speak, going for volume, grabbing the cheap stuff first.

The only time it happened to me was a printing error: several copies of the Guide to Transylvania were misprinted with pages missing and other pages duplicated in their place.

Weirdly enough, I actually like stuff like that. I bought a "DM's Guide" from a non-TSR-related vendor a few years ago at Gencon, and when I opened it up, the entire book was bound backwards and upside down. The vendor took the copy back and gave me a "correct" one, but I kinda wish I woulda hung onto it. The good thing is that the product reviews on FoS are pretty complete, so I find myself referencing what is within them and comparing to what is being sold.

So, you have all opened up a doorway to a few additional questions...

5) Why are Gaz IV+V "rare?" Is it simply because they were released at the "end of a run," like "Carnival?"

6) How often does the deck come up? I would assume its a feeding frenzy when it does. 1/year?

7) Besides the deck and Gaz IV+V, what was the hardest for you to get your hands on? When this "obsession" first began, I thought the Deck, "Masques" box, and Bleak House were the rarest of the rare...then I started seeing them pop up. Depending on condition, they aren't exactly CHEAP, but they aren't "hard to find," either.

I think my generalized path is:

2nd ed, continuing in order of release, picking up "deals" as I see them, regardless of order, or version.
3rd, 3.5, 4th after 2nd is *complete."
Novels, pins, "others" afterword.

Collections do not typically grow overnight. They take years, and I know, and expect that. Part of the fun, for me, is the chase. I just wanted to make sure I was chasing after the correct items - IE, if I see a Bleak for 10 bucks, I'm probably gonna bid on that before trying to score a Darklords.

As always, thanks everyone, and cheers!

~Galladril, the newest of Strahd's Servants~

[Gonzoron of the FoS]

5) Why are Gaz IV+V "rare?" Is it simply because they were released at the "end of a run," like "Carnival?"

Pretty much. That, and (like Carnival) they also happen to be very good.

6) How often does the deck come up? I would assume its a feeding frenzy when it does. 1/year?

I'm not sure, since I haven't been looking for one. But you might want to keep your eye on this thread:
http://fraternityofshadows.com/forum/vi ... f=1&t=4669
If that's any indication, once or twice a year, I guess.

7) Besides the deck and Gaz IV+V, what was the hardest for you to get your hands on?

The patch, the pins, the dicepouch, and the cap.

Depending on condition, they aren't exactly CHEAP, but they aren't "hard to find," either.

Yeah, most of the books, modules, etc. that were once sold in stores can be gotten if you're willing to pay for it. It's the promotional-type stuff that is rarely available at any price.

[The Giamarga]

If you were not aware of it here is the Ravenloft Collector's Guide from ENWorld. Read at your own peril.

Talon's Tarokka Deck is definately eye candy and a great collector's item. Even if you only play/collect 2E (you're missing out on much though imho, check out at least one of the gazetteers they are mostly fluff) it is a great prop, that is in no way tied to the 3E ruleset.

For me the Holy Grail would be the old RPGA Ghastria Tournaments by Jim Lowder.

As for rare/pricey things collecting a niche setting from 1e/2e/3elike Ravenloft is not so bad, check out the prices for the rare old timer adventure modules like Lost Tomoachan on the Acaeum.com

You should be able to get the rare novels for not too much money with a little patience and digging. (Saved email searches with email notification and/or bookfinder.com)

[galladril]

If you were not aware of it here is the Ravenloft Collector's Guide from ENWorld. Read at your own peril.

Saw that in my searches, but nice to have it linked within this thread - thank you.

Talon's Tarokka Deck is definately eye candy and a great collector's item. Even if you only play/collect 2E (you're missing out on much though imho, check out at least one of the gazetteers they are mostly fluff) it is a great prop, that is in no way tied to the 3E ruleset.

I think the deck will be the last thing I ultimately wind up getting, not for lack of desire, but lack of it coming up often enough to be able to snag it. Gaz issues are on my radar though.

For me the Holy Grail would be the old RPGA Ghastria Tournaments by Jim Lowder.

Yeah, I'm going to need to look into that...

As for rare/pricey things collecting a niche setting from 1e/2e/3elike Ravenloft is not so bad, check out the prices for the rare old timer adventure modules like Lost Tomoachan on the Acaeum.com

I've actually been an Acaeum member for years, but their listings on Ravenloft stuff is hard to find. They do have a Planescape sub-forum, but by far, the information on RL is simply better here. I really doubt they have much of anything about 3e, but a useful link for pretty much ANY D&D collector.

Thanks for the help!

Fast update:

Scored a Complete Bleak House and Complete Forbidden Lore yesterday, along with a few other modules and supplements since I made my initial posting. The collection is growing, but now my wallet needs a small break until next month.

Thank you, everyone, for all the help - you all receive +2 to your Horror Checks today!

[The Giamarga]

For me the Holy Grail would be the old RPGA Ghastria Tournaments by Jim Lowder.

Yeah, I'm going to need to look into that...

Yeah good luck with even locating one. I know three people who have one (Frank Mentzer, Jim Lowder himself and Ed Healy) but neither is willing to sell. And that's only for the first tournament. If you ever find one let me know I'll gladly put in a couple of bucks to get a scan for my personal reading pleasure...

Scored a Complete Bleak House and Complete Forbidden Lore yesterday, along with a few other modules and supplements since I made my initial posting. The collection is growing, but now my wallet needs a small break until next month.

Congrats! The 2e stuff should be not too hard to get with a little patience. Have you read the start of the marketplace thread? I've listed several great resellers and used book sites there.