EVERLASTING SORROW. A PALADIN IN RAVENLOFT?

[Johann Foxgrove]

Greetings, my dear fellow gamers. My name is Johann, a new parter in the crusade against evil. I understand that to fight an enemy you must know it, so, I came here to learn about your vast knowledge.

I want to start with a simple question: To be, or not to be... a Paladin in Ravenloft. My idea about the game is fighting against the evil (both the outside evildoers and the evil within every person), and what a better example than those knightly shadows sheathed in brightly armors, and riding the finest and noblest horses. Well, as a player, I love the paladin concept. It is really the hardest class to play with, but it is also the most
gratifying. All that sacrifices, the generosity, heroic deeds, extreme nobility, even with enemies... and isn't that Ravenloft about?
But... within the mists, a paladin will never feel satisfied. According with the knowledge he (or she) gain, that feeling of undo the evil acts of others, and his noble sense of justice, will drown him. So, I decided not to allow the native paladin class. A resolute player may play with an outsider, but that's why I agree with the idea of the non-existence of the native paladin character. He or she will eventually (and inexorabily) lost his or her mind, forever doomed to cry immersed in the thought of countless sins commited at every moment, constantly tortured in the nightmares of his own impotence, unable to destroy the ultimate evil, the darklords, and the mists itself.

Well, that's what I believe, but I want to know your opinion. What do you think?[/i]

[Rotipher of the FoS]

I don't think you have to omit native-born paladins from Ravenloft. It does, however, help if you alter their underlying beliefs slightly: rather than a belief that Good will triumph over Evil by its very nature, a RL paladin would have faith that keeping up the struggle against Evil, despite all of the darkness that suffuses their world, is an end -- and a triumph -- in itself. Tactical victories aren't their goal; moral victories (which are entirely attainable in Ravenloft; they're won, every time a PC opts not to do something that would impose a Powers check, and every time a flawed soul turns away from the darkness within them) are.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

I think Ravenloft is a great place for Paladins.
In other worlds, Paladins get the world handed to them on a platter. There are huge clergies and organizations dedicated to "goodness", and since Paladins are by nature forced to be good, they have instant credibility with most of the world.
Blech!
In Ravenloft, a paldin's life is extremly harsh. Goodness does exist, but it is covert and passive. Goodness seems to be about withstanding evil, rather than stopping it in its tracks. Those few who do commit overt acts quickly gain the attention of the variery of corrupt governing forces, like Azalin or Dominic D'Honaire, or wandering evil beings, like Monyaka, that evil vampire from Ravenloft Monstrous Compendiem vol 2.
In order to survive, paladins in Ravenloft have to adapt different strategies. No more charging in on a white horse - they move under the cover of darkness, strike at evil, then vanish before they draw attention.

Basically, in Ravenloft, paladins become Batman.

[Johann Foxgrove]

You are so right, Crow. I also think that the fight itself is more important than the final result. I just have a problem as DM. My players are relatively new, and they don't have the instinct of a true gamer yet. They don't care about the fight, they just care about the treasure. Sad, is not it?
But I have to agree... Could exist the fighter Paladin, but... they are in extreme danger. They have to be first in battle, and last to retreat. The Darklords hate them by their very nature, and the dark creatures don't get scared about them so easily as in a "normal" world. I said that playing a paladin is gratifying. In RL, it is anguishing. At least, to a true player, it will be.

[Augustus]

Paladins in RL know that they are doomed to meet an early death at the hands of evil because of what they are. Rather than flee, they choose to meet their fate head-on; to do as much good as possible for a world that finds them to be anathema. To go down fighting for what is good is the greatest ideal a paladin in RL can look forward to. Rather romantic(not love) if you think about it. I kinda wish I were a paladin now:(

[Johann Foxgrove]

The Batman Paladin? Never had that thought before. Yes, I understand the concept. I love paladins, but, the Ravenloft Paladin chooses to be a suffering creature, lingering about the mists doing good, but waiting death at every step, if he is lucky. Yes, I like the paladin native, but he is limited to the "martyr" kit. Or perhaps I had very sadistic Ravenloft DM's?

[Charney]

I must admit that in 8 years of gaming in Ravenloft, all the paladin PCs have died and most have met gruesome deaths: two eaten by goblyns, one transformed into a zombie werewolf, one killed in his sleep by another PC loosing his Powers Checks and one lost his paladin title, went mad cause of the nightmare court, was bitten by Strahd and then committed suicide by driving a dagger in his throat...

All great reasons to become a paladin

[Brandi]

I feel like Robert E. Howard's character Solomon Kane has to be mentioned ...

[Admin]

I kinda wish I were a paladin now:(

BAM!

[The Giamarga]

Ah but everyone knows than The Batman is a Ninja. Or was it Shadowbane Inquisitor?

Who's Solomon Kane?

[Boccaccio Barbarossa]

I think the fact that Paladins are marked from the very begining makes it all the MORE interesting - you play a character who is trying to fight evil as long as possible but as a player, you know that his fall is very likely. And role-playing that fall (which may in fact not be total - he may just give up on the ideals, or compromise them in certain ways that makes the Paladin in him dissapear, but not necessarily the Good, or even the Lawful Good.)! Wow! Role-playing the fall would be great!!!

That, and I would add - just because darklords know of the paladins in their domain, doesn;t mean they will necesasarily squash them outright - if you can manipulate a paladin and turn him towards your enemies... And, if a paladin became the favoured unwitting puppet of a higher power of evil, that evil being may wat to take pains to protect its favourite toy, no?

It's like several have already said - it's about the moral victory and refusign to give up the fight. (I think native paladins have the potential to be all the more dramatic because of it.)

As a vain side note - one of my favourite paladins lasted all of one session - she took on a mob of zombies in Night of the Living Dead. of course, we knew she was going to die, but the visuals of that death will stay with us forever - clad in chainmail, holding a lantern in one hand, a mace in the other, standing in the middle of a cornfield in a thrunderstorm while the undead keep coming, screaming out a litany of prayers even as she sees here end... and then to have her overwealmed and ripped to shreds... it was great!!!

We still talk about Krystal Descartiers and that scene as the highlight of that adventure!

[Uther]

First of all i would like to say that i love those manowar lyrics.
I think that Ravenloft is the only ideal place for a paladin.And that's because in Ravenloft one can find every temptation that can lead him/her into darkness.The struggle to resist temptations and continue fighting for what is good and noble is the true essence of a paladin.And ravenloft is the best testing ground.........

[Samael Hands of Stone]

I have always conidered paladins to be fantasy-roleplaying's answer to Superman, gifted with extraordinary powers and a fervent sense of duty to combat evil in all its forms, despite the dire consequnces. In light of Ravenloft's gothic-horror nature, the "Batman approach" seems much more appropriate, I have to agree.

To take it a step further, I would argue that darker super heroes like the Punisher and Daredevil in particular make for exteremy good case-studies in developing a suitable persona for a paladin native to the Core. Being that Ravenloft is by far the most "human" of the settings that I have played with its emphasis on corruption, greed, jelousy and ignorance. It takes a special kind of hero to confront these less tangible threats. Rooting out evil in a world saturated with grey areas and uncertainties presents a different kind of challenge than being faced with a more clear-cut mandate of dispatching wicked creatures and their fiendish masters.

A Ravenloft paladin must be more than a shining champion of justice and law, he/she must be imbued with caution and most of all patience. This paladin must come to the uderstanding that is is sorley outnumbered. That it will have to bide its time, collect its power and ressources before making its ultimate sacrifice (which will almost undoubtably be required). Never have the odds seemed so insurmountable, so impossible to overcome.

By virtue of these factors, playing a paladin has, in my mind, an almost completely new significance than in any other rpg setting or world.

[ScS of the Fraternity]

Who's Solomon Kane?

Solomn Kane was a puritan swordsman, created by the same guy who wrote Conan and Kull.

[The Giamarga]

I know the guy (Howard) but not that character.