The Southwestern core

[Scipion_Emilien]

I started a campaign in Invidia, I thought at first that it would be fun to explore the Malocchio/Gabrielle relation and the vistani curse, but my pc remain oblivious to the hint about this relation and i start to find Invidia a little boring if not of the ruling families.

So i wanted to know what do you find interesting in this section of the core that seem to me as being the "Third World" of Ravenloft.

[Undead Cabbage]

I never pictured Invidia as a good starting place for a RL campaign. That's just me, but I've always seen it as something that was later on accomplished. This also relies on what type of campaign you like to play.

First off, I'd have to say, just like doing a Mordentish campaign would require some reading on Van Richten's Guide to Ghosts, do some reading on Van Richten's Guide to the Vistani.

A lot of Invidia is tied to the oppression of the Vistani people. Keeping your characters indifferent towards this would only seem to diminish your campaign in Invidia. Invidia also plays a crucial rule when it comes to the Time of Unparralelled Darkness.

Going right for the throat and introducing the characters right off to the Dark lord's story will enevitably cut the realm short. Keep 'figuring out' the Dark Lord as something climactic, so there will be much more later.

Or atleast, that's been my take in Invidia. I'm sure more experienced RL GM's would have a better idea of what an Invidian campaign entails.

[Joël of the FoS]

Have you considered playing Evil Eye (in year 747)? One of the best adventures fro Ravenloft! It's free flow so you can add whatever subplot you wish to add to the mix. It's really fun.

And, in addition with Evil Eye you get to play an adventure while the chess pieces are setting themselves to the current situation: raise of Maloccio's power, vistani hunted, Gabrielle isolated and insane, etc.

Or for something more contemporary, you have the Gundar rebels taking a rest in Invidia, and supported by Gabrielle. Meanwhile, Maloccio's forces try to hunt them.

Or for a post Evil Eye, you have the Verbrek Calling adventure in the library here.

Joël

[Scipion_Emilien]

Thx for the input, i think i finally found my problem, it wasn't that invidia is boring but that my players are boring (they insists to play chaotic evil characters and their choice of god depend on the power granted). So i put them into a generic forgotten realms where i could find any kind of good people (and evil ones) to kick their butt if they start to disrupt too much. They simply haven't the subtility for a ravenloft campaing.


As for invidia, I was never able to classifie it.

I mean,

the four tower are the light of the renaissance

Barovia is the classic horror

Darkon is the superpower

Hazlan and Nova Vaasa are the classic middle age scenario with one big churché

Barovia is the classic horror and backward realm

But Invidia seem to be nothing of all that and I have trouble to see is fonction into the whole picture or his inspiration from real live (I like to know where the domains come, it help find true historical source who give me a synergy bonus when i made a skill check : DM this domain).

[Nathan of the FoS]

I would say that Invidia is something like a bandit paradise. In the Middle Ages there were large stretches of forest which no-one in particular really controlled, and someone brave enough, or desperate enough, could just flee into the woods and evade capture forever. Eventually large bandit groups formed in some places and preyed on those who had to travel through the forest (a la an evil Robin Hood).

Treating Gabrielle and Malocchio as would-be bandit rulers and the domain as a sort of Wild West ruled by the strongest might do the trick.

[Rotipher of the FoS]

You can also borrow elements of contemporary Eastern European history, in that Invidia's internal strife, ultra-militant politics, and current "ethnic cleansing" of Vistani draw some parallels to the disintegration of post-communist Yugoslavia. One could argue that the nation's unity has been falling apart ever since Bakholis's death -- Gabrielle's an excellent power-player, but she never really held military dominance over much of the domain -- and though Malocchio has been trying to avert the decline by sheer tyrannical brutality, each valley and village is gradually getting torn apart by the rising tide of factional and ethnic divisiveness.

[Augustus]

There's plenty for evil characters to do. Hell, my players have been contending for power of Zeidenburgs Black Markets. Your players just have to get imaginative and do something.

[Undead Cabbage]

The trick behind playing an evil character is that you have to be:
a: subtle
b: classey
c: human (I don't mean the race)

Your players probably held characters that just power hoarded, pilladged, and plotted against the GM. Next to Rules Lawyers, these players have to be my favorite Dish. But sometimes, as Stygian will agree, these players can bit a bit much to swallow. They're tasty when they broke upon, however.

Ravenloft evil is complicated. It's well designed, its tragic; its something that a lot of people could relate to. As a science student, I sometimes have to sympathize with the story of Dr. Mordenheim.

Also, as a rule of thumb, don't let players start evil. Nobody in RL is born evil, they simply fail to overcome certain obstacles in their life.

[Stygian Inquirer]

Your players probably held characters that just power hoarded, pilladged, and plotted against the GM. Next to Rules Lawyers, these players have to be my favorite Dish. But sometimes, as Stygian will agree, these players can bit a bit much to swallow. They're tasty when they broke upon, however.

Ravenloft evil is complicated. It's well designed, its tragic; its something that a lot of people could relate to. As a science student, I sometimes have to sympathize with the story of Dr. Mordenheim.

Also, as a rule of thumb, don't let players start evil. Nobody in RL is born evil, they simply fail to overcome certain obstacles in their life.

You are right Undead Cabbage, I do agree with you. Evil characters tend to let the power get to their head. They think that the DM should just bow to their wishes because they are evil and they think that campaigns are supposed to be good. It depends on the players' previous experience though, how they play. Just make sure that you pull in the reigns if they try to push you around. YOU are the DM. But what Augustus said is true as well. There is plenty for evil characters to do. I hope your campaign goes well Scipion.

[The Giamarga]

Since someone brought up the VRGttVistani here's a nice resource on RPG-Gypsies: http://www.griffjon.com/companions/angaria/roma.html

[Boccaccio Barbarossa]

Thx for the input, i think i finally found my problem, it wasn't that invidia is boring but that my players are boring (they insists to play chaotic evil characters and their choice of god depend on the power granted). So i put them into a generic forgotten realms where i could find any kind of good people (and evil ones) to kick their butt if they start to disrupt too much. They simply haven't the subtility for a ravenloft campaing.


As for invidia, I was never able to classifie it.

I mean,

the four tower are the light of the renaissance

Barovia is the classic horror

Darkon is the superpower

Hazlan and Nova Vaasa are the classic middle age scenario with one big churché

Barovia is the classic horror and backward realm

But Invidia seem to be nothing of all that and I have trouble to see is fonction into the whole picture or his inspiration from real live (I like to know where the domains come, it help find true historical source who give me a synergy bonus when i made a skill check : DM this domain).

In our game, Invidia always had something of a rural, southern Italy, crica 15th century. Just like Italy at the time, it's essentially a city with everyting outside of it kind of a bandit/early mafia hinterland. The mafia, in fact, used to e a group that protected these small towns from incrusion by foreign armies. And of coutrse, they exacted a "fee" for this service.

To us, Invidia is defined by rising passions, family feuds and blood oaths. Much of what would pass for crime there would be crimes of passion: betrayed lovers.... In fact, Romeo and Julien may not be a bad inspiration for the feel of the actual realm. "Star-crossed lovers"... duels, rival families. We've always felt that was much better to work with than the "war". Yes, t is a reality of the domain, but in the end, your average person is scared of Malocchio's mafia boss style leadership.

One of our most memorable characters is from Invidia, so maybe we had a vested interest in working out the specifics. I can agree, though, that the books seem to offer little for Invidia, but it offers enough for one to build up from there... (He owns a family vineyard just outside the city - and has a bitter, ongoing feud with another merchant family in Karina. great stuff!)

[Samael Hands of Stone]

I have to concur with Mr. Barbarossa, Invida works particularly well when handled with that rural Italy/Sicily flavor.

There is a famous scene from Godfather II that springs to mind, when the future patron of the Corleone family is still a child living in the village of his eventually adopted namesake.The local "mob boss" has him and his mother brought before him so he can make certain that his crimes against their family will not be retaliated against once the boy has grown up sufficiently to avenge his father's murder (which he later does). The dramatic way that scene unfolds, when the mother throws herself in the way of the gunshot to save her child has for me a very Invidan feel.

The vyniards, the generation-old family blood-feuds, tradesman and peasants under the watchful eye of a tyrant; it all makes for a very adventure-friendly setting if you ask me.

[alhoon]

Well, Invidia seems a good domain to me. It has bandits/thugs for the low levels, it has giants and other monsters for the middle-levels etc. You can make anything in Invidia, so I like this freedom. That's my opinion.
For example:
- Werewolf in the woods terrorizes village
- ghost in the manor of the previous lord, he/his family killed by Malocchio's followers
- Ogres working with evil fey hits disrupt local economy
- A demon breaks through from a wizard's control
etc.

[Boccaccio Barbarossa]

Well, Invidia seems a good domain to me. It has bandits/thugs for the low levels, it has giants and other monsters for the middle-levels etc. You can make anything in Invidia, so I like this freedom. That's my opinion.
For example:
- Werewolf in the woods terrorizes village
- ghost in the manor of the previous lord, he/his family killed by Malocchio's followers
- Ogres working with evil fey hits disrupt local economy
- A demon breaks through from a wizard's control
etc.

Plus, even though Karina is a small, isolated communiy, it has a thieves' guild, and we can easily imagine some families fighting, impromptu duels in the street... it's population may in fact be small because of the frequent violent deaths - otherwise, we might be looking at a much largler realm. With Maloccio at the head of it!

[Scipion_Emilien]

Any one know of a good historical book that could help me about that, my knowledge is strong into the pre-middle-age period, average in middle age and really poor at renaissance.

This is a thing I find sometime frustrating, the D&D books seem to take for granted that you already know how the historical period work.