Rahadoum and the Divinity of Mankind

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Consider the Pathfinder realm of Rahadoum and its policy of atheism - and potential problems due to lack to access to clerical magic. Imagine someone from Paridon managed to escape to Rahadoum and introduced the Divinity of Mankind. What do you think the results would be?

[tomokaicho]

Probably nothing. Their atheistic humanism probably will not appeal to those that believe that mankind is divine (or potentially divine).

[ewancummins]

Probably nothing. Their atheistic humanism probably will not appeal to those that believe that mankind is divine (or potentially divine).

I'm going to refrain from any real-world specific examples, but students of history can surely point out a certain atheistic and materalistic ideology that became a state religion in all but name, and which contained in its founder's writings the essential concept that God was only a projection of the true qualities of Man, and so Man could reabsorb those qualities and become godlike, enjoying mastery over Nature.

I think DoM could become a dangerously subversive movement in Rahadoum, if the state didn't destroy it first.

[ewancummins]

Question--

Is Rahadoum really atheist?

That is, do the people actually deny the existence of the gods?
I thought they just refused to worship the gods, but admitted their existence. Which does seem pretty strange...

[Rock of the Fraternity]

They admit the existence of the gods, but after a series of religious wars between three faiths tore up the region, a philosopher set up a series of laws. The first of which was, "let no man be beholden to a god". Ever since, the government has stomped on any religion that tries to get a foothold, all religious items are considered to be contraband, and Clerics can only get around Rahadoum if they can hide the fact that they are, in fact, Clerics.

None of which helps in cases where the Rahadoumi really need access to clerical magic. Bards pick up some of the slack, but they can't do everything. Also, the Rahadoumi are afraid they may be suffering the wrath of the gods as desertification proceeds at an increasing rate.
To my thinking, the Divinity of Mankind might be considered to be a most welcome alternative.

[ewancummins]

Golarion gawds must be pretty lazy, if they haven't done a more serious smiting than an increase in the rate of desertification.


Send some plagues to these guys without clerics.

[Wolfglide of the Fraternity]

According to that website, Pharasma, the Lady of Graves, occasionally feeds the souls of atheists to Groetus, god of the End Times, to move him away from the Boneyard, so the gods have a way of punishing those without faith. Granted, it is pretty passive compared to some grand cataclysm.

[ewancummins]

Cool!

Hail Groetus!

Really, Rahadudes, there are a fair number of gawds in Golarion. You couldn't find even one you liked worshipping?

[Hell_Born]

The Oath Wars were a three-way, 62 year long war between the churches of Norgorber (Neutral Evil god of thievery and assassination), Nethys (Neutral god of magic) and Saranrae (Neutral Good goddess of Dawn and Compassion). That is plenty to sour you on the idea that any of the gods are worth worshipping; if the church of the freaking Goddess who sponsors the biggest paladin orders on Golarion can be involved in such bloodshed and suffering without divine reprimand from above? Then, really, why should you trust any faith? Even just barring religions from holding secular authority isn't that reliable by comparison to just exiling them.

Ironically, if Rahadoum was a world operating under D&D 4e mechanics, they would be faring far better, simply because all of the things exclusive to clerics in 3e/PF are widely covered by arcane, primal and psionic magics and rituals.

[ewancummins]

The Oath Wars were a three-way, 62 year long war between the churches of Norgorber (Neutral Evil god of thievery and assassination), Nethys (Neutral god of magic) and Saranrae (Neutral Good goddess of Dawn and Compassion). That is plenty to sour you on the idea that any of the gods are worth worshipping; if the church of the freaking Goddess who sponsors the biggest paladin orders on Golarion can be involved in such bloodshed and suffering without divine reprimand from above? Then, really, why should you trust any faith? Even just barring religions from holding secular authority isn't that reliable by comparison to just exiling them.

Ironically, if Rahadoum was a world operating under D&D 4e mechanics, they would be faring far better, simply because all of the things exclusive to clerics in 3e/PF are widely covered by arcane, primal and psionic magics and rituals.

Maybe look beyond Nethys, Norgorber( what a fun name!) and Saranrae?


How about....
Groetus!

[Rock of the Fraternity]

Worshipping Groetus is like embracing clinical depression; it can only end in tears.... and worse.

[Rock of the Fraternity]

The Oath Wars were a three-way, 62 year long war between the churches of Norgorber (Neutral Evil god of thievery and assassination), Nethys (Neutral god of magic) and Saranrae (Neutral Good goddess of Dawn and Compassion). That is plenty to sour you on the idea that any of the gods are worth worshipping; if the church of the freaking Goddess who sponsors the biggest paladin orders on Golarion can be involved in such bloodshed and suffering without divine reprimand from above? Then, really, why should you trust any faith? Even just barring religions from holding secular authority isn't that reliable by comparison to just exiling them.

Ironically, if Rahadoum was a world operating under D&D 4e mechanics, they would be faring far better, simply because all of the things exclusive to clerics in 3e/PF are widely covered by arcane, primal and psionic magics and rituals.

I think the Dawnflower Cult was probably to blame; they're a mix of radicalized Sarenrites and people using the faith for their own ends. They do things supposedly in the name of Sarenrae to make her the top goddess of Golarion that go right against her creed.

[The Lesser Evil]

They admit the existence of the gods, but after a series of religious wars between three faiths tore up the region, a philosopher set up a series of laws. The first of which was, "let no man be beholden to a god". Ever since, the government has stomped on any religion that tries to get a foothold, all religious items are considered to be contraband, and Clerics can only get around Rahadoum if they can hide the fact that they are, in fact, Clerics.

None of which helps in cases where the Rahadoumi really need access to clerical magic. Bards pick up some of the slack, but they can't do everything. Also, the Rahadoumi are afraid they may be suffering the wrath of the gods as desertification proceeds at an increasing rate.
To my thinking, the Divinity of Mankind might be considered to be a most welcome alternative.

Perhaps by some of the people, but certainly not the government, which has been stated by the designers to hunt down all casters of divine magic, even casters such as oracles who have no explicit connection to the gods. (Witches, being arcane spellcasters, strangely get a pass apparently.) Witches (especially hex channelers) can cast healing magic, as can alchemists and maybe some of the psychic magic classes, so there's more than just bards to pick up the slack though.

[DeepShadow of FoS]

I thought clerics can worship a philosophy rather than a god. DoM is hardly the first example of this. Why haven't philosophies taken up the slack?

[ewancummins]

I thought clerics can worship a philosophy rather than a god. DoM is hardly the first example of this. Why haven't philosophies taken up the slack?

Maybe in Golarion only gods can provide clerics with magic?