Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by brilliantlight »

OK, here is my rundown. I should have done this earlier but I was glad most people seemed to like my changes to Tepest. I hope I didn't change the theme of it. The story line is pretty much the same , just somewhat embellished. I made the hags considerably more powerful and developed differences between them. It was easy to mix them up with the original description of them. They are pretty much clones with slightly different stats. There are definite differences between the personalities of the sisters and you would know whether you are dealing with one sister or the other.

The Jungle of Fire and Rain taking The Jungle Book as its inspiration is a good idea. I haven't seen the cartoon since a little kid but from what little I remember of it the story line is similar.

The one change I would make is that there would be decent sized villages of men on the outskirts. S'Khan not only has to deal with Oongli but men in villages who are a threat to the jungle. He is still obsessed with Oongli as he sees him as a sign of betrayal by some of the animals. The other animals are upset at him for his obsession with one kid when there are entire villages that are a threat.

He now has two curses, he will never find the kid nor will he ever be able to wipe out the villages. They all have fire to keep him at bay and he is real pyrophobic. His being merged with a pyre elemental has no effect on that.

The Three Fairies are great and it is a hell of a coincidence that we have two fairy based articles. I don't know Tiamat personally and so we didn't communicate at all. Despite that we have two fairy based articles and fey aren't the most common aspect of Ravenloft.

Cecil is the best of the lot. I like subtle villains and Cecil is great at being that. He is a real mastermind who appears to be really helpful. It might not be obvious to the mark that Cecil is behind everything crashing down on them. He is behind the scenes pulling strings. They might even have short rallies as he gives them "good advice" once in a while to drag things out. You have to feel sorry for the poor schleps who Cecil is messing with.

Brum is quite a good idea. Not all opponents have to be truly evil. Some can be misguided or short tempered. Brum can be a bit of both. I like the idea of whoever stole the coins planting them on other people. That could well be their motive for stealing them in the first place. It wasn't to get the handful of coins , it was to get Brum after their enemies. The real villain wouldn't be Brum but the thief.

Elegist would work best in the Nightmare Lands IMO. Although not officially part of the court he could well work for them, particularly the dancer. Another place he would work well are in very cultured lands like Dementlieu or Kartakass. He would be found in graveyards there close to singer and musician graves.

Linking the undead with alchemy is a unique idea and it seems to have been done well. Only one completely insane would use the Alchemical Animator which is why I like it. It is for the many inane beings running around RL.

Zeindost is quite interesting. You have a bunch of good undead and lycanthropes running around but not all of them are good. I like that as it makes them people not just good versions of the standard. For one thing after figuring out there are good undead running around the PCs might think they are all good and are far too trusting of them. If they are then tricked by one of the evil ones they might decide they are all evil but very tricky. It is a good way to mess with their heads which is very good.

I like the fact that the Dark Lord is an undead that is prejudiced against other undead. It is part of his self loathing. Like you said he would be in the perfect spot in Ravenloft for himself if he simply accepted his condition. I would also make it so that any indirect control he has in politics will always break down. His blackmail material will go missing, any hold he has over anyone will be broken, his plots will fail. However this will take time and he can be quite successful with it for some time. Unlike Drakov he isn't "kicked to the curb" every time but is usually on the verge of success just before everything comes crashing down.

The Marauder's Legacy is a number of really good magic items that I might use. The fact that they look benign is what I like. On the surface they look like good devices but I can see them causing RL power checks as it says in the article. I would reduce it somewhat because it is strictly voluntary and normally used for good purposes.

Archibald Everlast would be a real useful ally for the PCs if he ever really got involved. He would be more than a match for the vast majority of Dark Lords. However with his personality he probably has to be pushed very hard to get involved. I see Azaln seeing him as an enemy but also a sleeping giant. He is well aware if Archibald really came after him he would be a real threat. He is one of the few beings that would have a shot at taking down Azalin. As such I see the various Dark Lords being very wary of him and making sure they don't provoke him.

Buck is the least interesting one for me, maybe because he is still too much of an animal and I like bright villains but to each his own.
Last edited by brilliantlight on Fri Nov 03, 2017 9:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by Mistmaster »

I would like to thank any reder who commented or will comment my works; here are my hopinions on the rest of the issue:

The Jungle of Fire and Rain: I did like the idea; I do agree with Brilliantlight thought, give back the human villages, it will be really better.

The Three Fairies are great characters, and I do like expecially Cecil, the evil version of Puss in the boots. I do wonder how the Dark Powers still haven't given him a Domain, however.
Brum and the Elegist are nice too. The Elegit and his DanceMacabreis particularly good.

Victor Gagne story was great; and the Alchemical Animator has a Yuznan flavour I really appreciated.

As I already said, Tepest reload was nice, I would have enlarged the settlements a bit, but that are a matter of taste.

The Marauder's Legacy is my personal favourite, and I think it hit the bullseye of the theme neatly; the bit about Power's check, I would probably downplay, however.

Buck came to me as something a bit forced; after all, he did love his humans; it would work better as a nature spirit of revenge against people who spill blood of the innocent.
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by Wolfglide of the Fraternity »

Mistmaster wrote: the Alchemical Animator has a Yuznan flavour I really appreciated.
I actually did base aspects of the first two formulae on Herbert West--Reanimator by H. P. Lovecraft. I did see Brian Yuzna's film Reanimator, but I do not care for it as much as the original.
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by Rock of the Fraternity »

I thought I recognized the influence! :D
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by Mistmaster »

I did not remember if a Lofrcraft's tale was involved in the movie, that's why I did not mentioned the book.
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by NeoTiamat »

Thank you all for your very kind words. :lucas: It warms (or chills) the heart to know that these little creeps from my distant past were appreciated.
Rock wrote:I love 'the Three Faeries'! Some great plot hooks and ideas there. Cecil is my favourite out of the three. Brum is sympathetic, the Elegist is weird and creepy as all get-out (and may make an appearance in one of my games sooner or later), but Cecil gets my DM's blood running faster. ;)
I've got a bunch of faeries in my files, but I picked these three because they make a particular set. Brum is the sympathetic antagonist, the Elegist is the one-shot horror, and Cecil is the mastermind. I'll note that Lia ran into good ol' Cecil in our abortive Shattered City campaign (AKA, Sodalis the Phane).
Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Three Fairies: squee! I'm a NeoTiamat fanboy, particularly enamored with his take on the fey, so this was a home run for me. Totally gave me the creeps, and I could see myself using any of the three. Though, Cecil is the kind of character I sometimes feel like I'm not smart enough to play right. How can I give the impression of plans within plans when I can't see the point of those plans myself? But even so, this article is one of my favorites.
Smile a lot, imply a lot, drop hints, and watch your players put together better plans than you ever could. Then claim it was your idea all along.

It works remarkably well.
brilliantlight wrote:The Three Fairies are great and it is a hell of a coincidence that we have two fairy based articles. I don't know Tiamat personally and so we didn't communicate at all. Despite that we have two fairy based articles and fey aren't the most common aspect of Ravenloft.
They're an increasingly common aspect of horror, however. You have the first beginnings of faeries-as-horror with Neil Gaiman's Sandman back in the 90s, but the idea of the Fair Folk as something scary really takes off after 2005, with Guillermo del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth in 2006, Changeling: The Lost by White Wolf in 2007, and the Coraline movie in 2009, also based on a propery by Gaiman.

Ravenloft largely predates the Fair Folk trend, although the Van Richten Guide to the Shadow Fey started moving in that direction towards the very end of the setting.

For my part, I'm rather proud of the fact that I was sort of an early GM to move into faeries as a horror element, though I feel like a lot of what was weird and unexpected when I started gaming in 2007 is now much more mainstream.
Mistmaster wrote:The Three Fairies are great characters, and I do like expecially Cecil, the evil version of Puss in the boots. I do wonder how the Dark Powers still haven't given him a Domain, however.

Brum and the Elegist are nice too. The Elegit and his DanceMacabreis particularly good.
Cecil is domain-less for probably the same reason that Inajira is domain-less. The Dark Powers prefer mortals for their darklords, people with a certain tragic arc. Cecil is not a tragic villain. He's a spiteful little spirit that acts according to its nature.
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by Gonzoron of the FoS »

NeoTiamat wrote:They're an increasingly common aspect of horror, however. You have the first beginnings of faeries-as-horror with Neil Gaiman's Sandman back in the 90s, but the idea of the Fair Folk as something scary really takes off after 2005, with Guillermo del Toro's Pan's Labyrinth in 2006, Changeling: The Lost by White Wolf in 2007, and the Coraline movie in 2009, also based on a propery by Gaiman.
Don't forget The Dresden Files! :)
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by Mistmaster »

@Brilliantlight: abour Everlast your observation is right; is not that he does not act directly because he does not care, however, quite the opposite he does not want to escalate, but first of all, he does not feel it is his call to fight directly; his duty is to teach all he can to those which will fight; secondary, he doesn't want to destroy the Darklords; he would like to redeem them; he knows how the Dark Powers work, and he knows that the Darklords are prisoners of theyr own wickedness. That said, I deeply pity the fools which would try to harm people under his protection. Azalin do fear Everlast power directly, but he also resent the good lich deeply. Of course he will always act indirectly, and theyr conflict is a long running chess game. Right now, Everlast is ahead, but you can never know. (His motivations are his own burden and it's what makes him interesting for the Dark Powers; Everlast ultimate goal is an utopy, and he knows that, but he won't give it up)
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by De Montour »

Faerie Tale by Raymond E Feist (1988) . That was my first encounter with the Fey in a horror tale.
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by NeoTiamat »

Gonzoron of the FoS wrote:Don't forget The Dresden Files! :)
...after Changes I kind of want to...
De Montour wrote:Faerie Tale by Raymond E Feist (1988) . That was my first encounter with the Fey in a horror tale.
Hah. I was actually thinking of Feist, but figured that was too obscure a story to mention. Actually, I think Feist's story is one of the very first Horror Fey, at least without going back really far to Arthur Machen's The Great God Pan before WWI. I do think Neil Gaiman's Sandman, also from 1988, was the work of fiction that really brings back faeries as horror creatures (Feist's book was kind of a weird one-off from his Riftwar books, whereas Sandman is a modern classic).

Of course, if you wander a bit earlier, you find Jim Henson's Labyrinth, where our David Bowie is pretty much an archetypal faerie lord, right down to the baby snatching. Brian Froud's books of faerie illustrations also showed that they weren't all sweetness and light, and even earlier one might note that Maleficent, the Disney villain, is an evil faerie (though she behaves more like a classic witch, down to the Satan-granted powers as seen in her lines about all the Powers of Hell).

Anyway, the Fair Folk as horror never entirely went away, although for a very long time they were sort of whitewashed in a Victorian 'tiny people with wings' guise. But it was definitely a sort of quiescent strain in horror fiction -- I've heard the argument that a lot of the horror associated with MIB and aliens is a kind of transposed, modernistic update of faerie legends, though I haven't the anthropological chops to really get into that one.
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by brilliantlight »

My article did not come about because of an increased interest in evil fey (I wasn't even aware of that) but because someone mentioned in a thread that Tepest as is was a fairly boring domain in their opinion and the sisters little more than clones. My first though is that the second had a lot to do with the first. IMO boring DLs= boring domains or at least come close. Since the DL is the core of the domain a boring DL makes for a boring domain IMO.

The first thing I did was figure out how to make the sisters more different. Different types of hags just made for different stats which are the least interesting (Although very important) part of a character. The thing I did was give them three different crafting skills that they were very interested in and very good at. I also gave them different negative aspects to their personality. Laveeda is the most physically violent and relishes battle, Leticia has a short temper and likes to see things burn while Lorinda is the most bitter and sadistic.
At heart they are still peasant girls who want to move up in the world and live the good life.

Their condition prevents that. It is hard to do so when you can only be active at night, particularly in a medieval setting without artificial lighting and long working hours. The domain produces mockeries of their desires. They wanted to live in fine houses in advanced cities wearing fancy dresses, eating fine food, drinking fancy wines and brandies and wearing silver and gold jewelry with ruby or emerald stones.

Instead they stuck in the kind of rural backwater they lived all their lives in and wanted to escape with people wearing tough but poorly fitted clothes, eating mostly the only food that Leticia couldn't make well, and wearing brass jewelry with cheap stones.

As a fitting twist IMO they hatch convoluted plans that meet petty desires. They hatch complicated schemes that Azalin Rex might take notice of to obtain a stock of hats for rich merchant wives, a case of fine brandy or a box full of a noble woman's jewelry.

I can picture PCs running all over creation trying to stop the big scheme thinking it is some domain shattering plot that Azalin is behind and finding out that, in the end, it is just about a shipment of fine wine. You need players with a sense of humor to do it though and letting them get treasure in other ways. The three sisters are quite willing to allow magical items fall into another's hands to get what they really want. Leticia wouldn't have any problems with making and giving up a +2 magic sword, a cloak of charisma and dozen potions for wagon full of brandy. After all, she can always make more.

They are fully aware there are easier and cheaper ways to get what they want but what is the fun in that? Their complex schemes are in large part as a way to fight off boredom. They are highly intelligent but stuck in a backwater domain as virtual hermits. Nothing much of interest happens around them so they have to come up with complex schemes to keep themselves occupied.
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Re: Quoth the Raven #24: reactions

Post by brilliantlight »

NeoTiamat wrote:
Smile a lot, imply a lot, drop hints, and watch your players put together better plans than you ever could. Then claim it was your idea all along.

It works remarkably well.
That works well all around, more than once I have changed campaigns significantly because of something one of my players said. Do this enough times and they will think you are a "secret genius". :lol:
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