D&d & in game time?

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Nox
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D&d & in game time?

Post by Nox »

Hi, It's been a while!
I have a problem with the in game time.
To me it seems that for players there is no downside in take more time to accomplish some tasks (Looking for traps, secret Doors, trasures, rest after combat, or maybe build something). What i mean is that Irl we tend to try to accomplish our task as fast and well as possible, since we are not immortal . In D&d there is no urge and no boredom since with a single phrase the dm can switch weeks, months or even years.
I find this annoying since my players can actually do anything and the system is not Built to provide any danger in taking more time to do certain things (set a trap for example), it is all on the dm. There are random encounters but I (as most dm) find them useless and a waste of time, so I use them very sparingly (this is expecially true since we just play few hours per month and those fights take sooo much time away from the actual story).

I'd like to know if you feel this problem and if you have any home rule to fix it?

I searched on Google and I found a system that works in this way: after everyone has taken some action the DM say something like "time passes", and add a dice (D4 for very dangerous place, d6 for dangerous place, d8 for risky place, and d10 for very sparse place with little to no threats). Those dices are added to a "time pool" at the center of the table (so anyone can see and this create some urge). Every dice has a value from 3 to 10 minutes. When there are 6 dice in the pool the DM must roll them and if any of the dice rolls 1 then something bad happens (floor collapse, random encounter, etc). After this roll is resolved you can consider that an hour has past (including the bad thing) and the dices in the time pool must be removed. There are more rules but This is grossly how it works, Just to give you an idea. This system should make the player more aware of the passing of time and it should create some urge in them since the more time it takes the more is the risk for them to encounter a bad roll.
What do you think of this system? How would you improve it?

If you are interested in the reading of the full ruleset(it s not complicated) you can search on Google for "it cannot be seen, it cannot be smelt D&d" and you should find it (or try with "time pool d&d").
Thanks for your time!
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Re: D&d & in game time?

Post by alhoon »

I find the system you suggest punishing and arbitary. That's like saying "Gods punish people that take their time". Bad things don't happen to patient people because they took a few more minutes except in dangerous situations. Hence the "take 20" rule.

A door in the dungeon looks funny? Why is it bad to take your time checking for traps? People disarming bombs work veeeery slowly.

If I had to pose a time limit (I was never bothered by "I take my time") I would make it according to the character's patience\wisdom\will.
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Re: D&d & in game time?

Post by Nox »

alhoon wrote:I find the system you suggest punishing and arbitrary. That's like saying "Gods punish people that take their time". Bad things don't happen to patient people because they took a few more minutes except in dangerous situations. Hence the "take 20" rule.

A door in the dungeon looks funny? Why is it bad to take your time checking for traps? People disarming bombs work veeeery slowly.

If I had to pose a time limit (I was never bothered by "I take my time") I would make it according to the character's patience\wisdom\will.
Sorry, I was on phone and I did not put much effort in explaining the system in all the details, now that I'm on the PC I can do it with more ease.
I'll put it on spoiler just to keep a clean Format:
VIEW CONTENT:
So the system works like this: we have a pool in the center of the table, where everyone can see it. This is the Time Pool. I have 4 set of 6 dice (1 set of 6d4, 1 set for d6, 1 for d8 and 1 for d10). In dangerous place (so "usually" not in cities, tavern etc) whenever the players(The party) take an action - or more - that need some time (from 3 to 10 minutes: searching for secret doors, traps, building something etc) DM add 1 dice to time pool. When Time Passes the DM can choose to roll the dices in the pool instead of adding a dice to the Time Pool. Generally the DM should do this ONLY if there is a reason behind that decision (For example: the players are trying to break open a door, smash a wall, or something that could attract attention or otherwise cause some kind of bad things, like a collapsing ceiling/floor, structural damage, etc). If any dice rolls 1 something bad happens (See below for example quote). The DM then remove 1 of the dices from the pool. If the pool is full the DM MUST roll all the dices, and if a 1 happens, something bad happens. After this, all the dice are removed from the pool.

I will make some small quotes from the page of this system, just to give you a better idea on how this mechanic was supposed to be used:
"The most important thing about the Time Pool is that it is a visible indicator of the passage of time. The players can’t ignore it. Every time they decide to take drawn-out action, time is going to pass. And they can see it. That won’t stop them. The filling of the Time Pool is inexorable. But as the Time Pool grows, it will give the PLAYERS a growing sense of dread that would mirror their CHARACTERS’ growing sense of impatience. And it would make them think twice about searching every inch of every room three or four times.".

"Right now, it probably just seems like I have built a much more complicated way of handling random encounters and a kludgy way of forcing GMs to track the passage of time. And if you’ve never had any serious problem with time-wasting players searching everywhere, repeatedly reattempting checks – or asking to – or resting with impunity, you probably don’t see the worth."

Also a little quote for the "Bad Things":
"For example, sure, the Bad Thing can just be random encounters. But personally, I think those random encounters should be fairly small and easy encounters (10-15 minutes at most at the table).But, look, random combats with minor vermin is only the tip of the iceberg. Imagine if you’re running an infiltration adventure. What might the Bad Thing be? Well, obviously, the party can see or hear a patrol coming and now they have to hide or ambush the patrol or run away. What if the party is exploring a crumbling, unstable ruin? A Bad Thing might represent a collapse or seismic activity. A part of the dungeon might be closed off to them. Or they might suffer some damage from a minor fall of rubble and debris. A tidal cave might be filling up with water. Every time a Bad Thing happens, more of the dungeon is flooded. If the adventure involves a cult opening a portal to hell, each Bad Thing might represent the cult completing one of the six steps in opening the portal. The more steps they have completed, the more demons in the final encounter and the harder the portal is to close. In the dragon’s lair, each Bad Thing might represent the dragon rousing. And then realizing someone is in the dungeon. And then searching for them. And then finding them. The players might not even realize what is happening. The GM might just make a note that the dragon is now roused, remove the die, and say “uh oh.” If the party is trying to evade capture, a Bad Thing could represent the enemy finding them. Or getting closer. And the GM could track how far away the enemy is. After four Bad Things, the enemy might ambush the players. In less dramatic adventures, a Bad Thing could represent a setback that is too minor to really be an encounter. The party accidentally disturbs a snake without noticing it and a random player is bitten before anyone can react. That kind of crap. In a cursed crypt, the party might be wracked with ghostly moans and have to make a saving throw or suffer a temporary Bane effect. Instead of random encounters, Bad Things can be minor setbacks instead.

The point is, Bad Things become a planning tool. The GM can find the thing in an adventure that hooks into the passage of time and use that to advance the plot. Or rather, to provide a setback for the players. And if you were thinking about building rules modules based around different modes of play, you could certainly utilize Bad Things easily enough."

I dont want it to be a punishment for slow people, i would like to have something that add urge in certain situation and create a sense of immersion and something that can be a tool for my dungeon mastering, rather than an annoying obstacle for the players.
Dont get me wrong, i dont think this system is perfect, infact i made this post to know what you think and if you have any other system for this issue.
Also any advice or change to improve this system is apreciated.

My personal opinion on the system so far (i have not tested it yet in game):
Pros: The player know (or at least have an idea) how much time they have 'till next roll(I.e. next possible bad situation). This makes the players more attentive on how to play their moves. This doesnt mean that the player cannot take the longer and safer route, but at the same time it means that the longer route in certain case could not pay off (Keep in mind that there are various level of chance for getting 1. If you are using d4 - which should be a fairly rare occasion, for example if your player are trying to claim a fortress full of enemies - the chance are higher. The normal dice for this Roll is a d6 -for normal dungeon, wilderness, etc - then there is the d8 for sparse dungeon/places and d10 for very sparse dungeon/places). This makes the player think more like in real life, where if you have to trap a bear in a cave you do not put trees in all the entrance(Which take about a day of work) and burn them to kill the bears with smoke (happened, it was fun, but not very realistic and to me, it broke the immersion). This system offers a lot of ways to use it as a tool to generate plot events on random basics. It could be interesting for players (I think) and could add some spice to the campaign for me (the DM) aswell since I will not know if or when an event will occur, or how will the final encounter will be.

Cons: You are right when you say that it would seems that god punish slow people (but only If I will not play the system in the right way). I dont like much the fact that it seems arbitrary (Even though in D&D a lot of things are arbitrary and "DM's choice". I understand that the fact that I can decide to roll at any given time could seem very arbitrary). I still dont know if this will end up slowing the game down, but TBH i think it wont.

Final Quote:
"Now, this system is great for minute-to-minute game play. Exploring a dungeon, infiltrating a location, that kind of thing. But it doesn’t quite work for protracted periods of wilderness travel. But don’t worry, when I start redesigning wilderness travel, I will be building on the Time Pool system. For now though, enjoy the added sense of impatient dread in every dungeon."
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Re: D&d & in game time?

Post by alhoon »

There's only one way to "play the game wrong": Play it in a way that the people involved (including the DM) don't have fun.
As such, make any change you like to the game including this or any other house rule. If it works and people have fun? Good. If it doesn't? Remove it again.
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Re: D&d & in game time?

Post by Nox »

alhoon wrote:There's only one way to "play the game wrong": Play it in a way that the people involved (including the DM) don't have fun.
As such, make any change you like to the game including this or any other house rule. If it works and people have fun? Good. If it doesn't? Remove it again.
Thank you, We will try this system in the next session and see how it plays out. I will post a comment here just to let anyone who could be interested know how it went out.
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Re: D&d & in game time?

Post by Dark Angel »

Time being a factor in my games usually has one of three situations.

1) The party is under no time constraints and can go at their own paces to handle the situations (most down time, already cleared the castle/dungeon/area of danger, etc).

2) The party is under time constraints and must act accordingly (Strahd will wake up at sunset and they need to steal that item and get far away before he does wake up, the Midnight Slasher will strike again and they must be stopped before more innocents die, the ship is sinking and they have to get to a boat to avoid drowning below decks, etc).

3) The party believes they are not under time constraints and act accordingly, but unknowingly are (the players find a magical book that will bring Azalin's Kargat to them and not realize it until it's too late, they are picking a lock on a door that is their only way out as a monster is stalking down the other hallway silently, they are resting up and believe the evil is over as the ghost will eventually reform and seek out the item they took from it, etc).

Yeah, if they have a situation, the real danger comes from the category above that it falls into. They have a trapped door? It can take about 5-15 minutes to find, disarm, and unlock a locked trapped door (whether it was trapped or not). Four doors? Maybe up to an hour. Hallways? Floor plates? Ceilings? Can all be trapped. Strahd's castle? If they search every 5 foot section for secret doors and traps, they would be there for days. Time is a factor. They have a small safe they took from the bandits after they attacked the PCs? They could take their time. They have time. If there is a locked person in the safe (child, Halfling, etc)? Time is now a factor. If they are on a dungeon crawl and either chasing a bad guy or trying to escape a desperate situation, will they take the time to stop and check for traps? Probably not. Yeah, the thief is there for that reason, but the time frame makes impossible then.

I also get that fights can take a long time and you want to get the adventure going. Been there, but usually the fights can be dealt with in 20 minutes (in my game). I have had 'toss away' filler encounters that went bad and take over two hours of real time. I am still amazed when they have difficulty handling certain encounters and take away an hour to navigate a river crossing because they don't want to get hip deep in the water. I swear there was nothing in the water. At first. Then 45 minutes later, kind of changing my mind.
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