Carnival Interview
This interview of Steve Miller and John Mangrum was conducted on Tues. Oct. 26, 1999, 6 p.m. PST over the Wizards of the Coast Message boards.
http://www.wizards.com/chat/logs/log_o2.doc
TSRO_Zugran |
Welcome to a Special Product Spotlight--Steve Miller and John Mangrum! From the mists of Ravenloft emerges the Carnival. Talk with game designers Steve Miller and John Mangrum and delve deeper into this eerie sideshow and learn how to bring the Carnival into any campaign setting. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Hello everyone! Sorry for being late! (I was in line for coffee!) |
Drierik |
Good evening John and Steve! |
Thersites |
Are there any plans to see the Carnival or its characters in future RL products? |
TSRO_Durst |
Opening comments from the guests first, then the Q&A from the audience. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
I'm Steve Miller, a designer for WotC/TSR who has been working on Ravenloft for the past five years, both behind the scenes (as a story developer), as an editor, and as a designer. |
Mangrum |
I'm John W. Mangrum, one of the co-designers on Carnival. I'm a freelancer just getting into the biz, so this was my first big project. I'm also one of the Kargatane, a fan group that puts out netbooks for Ravenloft. Our third annual netbook, The Book of Secrets, comes out just this weekend, in fact. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Carnival was something of a culmination of the last five years for me . . . as John pulled in minor figures from the very first RL adventure I was involved in, and many of the elements I see as key to the setting really shine in this product . . . thanks to John. Oh, and it's a culmination because threads that ran through the products I edited/designed/developed were also in Carnival. |
Brakkart |
Who came up with the pickled punks? And where did you get the idea from? |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
I could have sworn the pickled punks were your idea, John . . . I don't even think I did any monkeying with them! |
Mangrum |
The pickled punks are a classic sideshow exhibit. I took that, inspired by a visit to the Mutter Museum in Philadelphia, and added a touch of Cronenburg. |
SkyKnight |
What is the meaning of life? (Just kidding.) What made you decide to make Isolde the creature you made her out to be? |
Mangrum |
That decision was made before I entered the picture, so I'll let Steve tackle that one. I will say that I guessed Isolde was a (bleep) before the bosses told me. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
The basic concept of Carnival started with Isolde. We wanted a wandering domain that was COMPLETELY different from anything else creation-wise than what we had done before. During the writing of Domains of Dread, we agreed to keep Isolde nebulous even to ourselves . . . but when I came back to TSR/WotC, Cindi Rice and I sat down to decide exactly what Isolde was. (We knew her general nature, but not exactly.) She and I kicked ideas around for about half a day, and finally she clicked. I think John, however, was the one who linked with everyone's favorite Mystery Man. |
SkyKnight |
Many thanks. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
BTW, I *think* that's accurate. Sometimes I forget who did what. |
Mangrum |
I can't take credit for that, actually. Isolde was hunting the GC when I got the project. I was the one who decided to give the GC dialogue, though. :) |
The_Red_Wizard |
In my humble opinion, Carnival looks to be one of the better sourcebooks published for Dungeons & Dragons. What innovative ideas did you come up with or anything else special to make Carnival look so darn cool? |
Mangrum |
Personally, I just thought about the sort of accessory I'd always wanted to see as a fan. So I mixed the best elements of what had come before, including Steve's trend of throwing new ideas at you every other sentence. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
That question will take all night to answer. All I can say is that this is the closest thing to a perfect Ravenloft accessory that I've been involved with. I also think that John's research into real world freak shows went a long way to giving the book its special flavor. |
Mangrum |
Oh, yeah, that too. Nearly everyone in there has some connection to the real world--if only a very tenacious one at times. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
And one more thing . . . the artists involved gave us killer art that really conveyed the characters we wrote about. |
Drierik |
What are the other RL "important" groups' (such as the Vistani) reaction to the Carnival? (Sorry if it's already answered in the accessory. I couldn't get my hands on it yet.) |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
It really depends. Some dark lords fear it (they don't understand it), others want to destroy it (because they can't control it), while others probably ignore it because it might serve as a safety valve where weirdoes can disappear to. |
Mangrum |
There are Vistani in the Carnival, but they're all outcasts from their people. The rest of the Vistani probably give the Carnival a respectful distance. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
As for the Vistani, that's hard to answer, because it depends on what the DM decides the Vistani with Carnival are. Like so many other RL products that I got my grubby paws on, this one leaves a number of questions open for DM interpretation. (Although John just stated the Skurra outcasts, Carnival isn't quite so clear about it. That's certainly the most logical explanation . . . but I also like some of the more far-fetched ones that the product suggests. Law enforcers probably hate the place. |
Mangrum |
Either way, the Skurra are some very weird people. |
Drierik |
Thanks. Now I really will have to get it. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Drierik, let me know what you think when you do. |
Mortavirus |
I noticed that there was a lot of emphasis placed on NPCs and the Twisting, and not so much on other things of the Carnival, such as wild and fantastical animal exhibits or what the Skurra sell. Were there plans for these? |
Mangrum |
The creeplings and fidgets Steve just referred to, by the way, were inspired by a shot in the film Freak, as a point of trivia. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
There is a partially finished article on my computer, based partially on material that John came up with but that had to be cut for space. If (when, actually) I finish it, you'll see stuff along those lines. John covered some of those bases . . . I cut it so I could babble on about the characters . . . and provide some additional stats/hard game info. John . . . anything to add? |
Mangrum |
As for my side, the project taught me very quickly about *focus*. Including more stuff on Carnival trinkets would have meant taking out a character or two, and I felt the NPCs were the heart and soul of Carnival. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Plus . . . the trinkets CAN be covered with the info in VR Vistani, if memory serves. |
Mangrum |
And a couple characters did have to be taken out as it was--but four of them will be in The Book of Secrets. |
Brakkart |
If Isolde shows up as a paladin to domain lords, why would Azalin invite the Carnival (and her as well I presume) to perform for him? Surely he would not want her anywhere near him. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
That was a show of power. 'You're tough. But I'M tougher.' Plus, it's a way for him to get a first-hand look at her and evaluate what she's all about. Plus, even wizard kings enjoy a good freak show now and then. |
Mangrum |
I imagine Azalin had found out by that time that Isolde wasn't running around slaying darklords, and invited her over in the hopes of discovering what she *was* running around doing. |
Thersites |
The Carnival looks as though it could fit into Gothic Earth without too much trouble (though the Isolde/GC backstory would probably need to be changed). Any plans for future expansion along those lines? Maybe a Web enhancement? |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
What with Ravenloft getting dedicated online support from the Kargatane website, I imagine the sky's the limit. There are no firm plans, though. |
Mangrum |
I hadn't thought about it, but it's certainly possible. Several Troupers were based on acts made famous by P.T. Barnum in Theones. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
As far as Gothic Earth goes, fixing Isolde and the Gentleman Caller is very easy. Just make the baroness referred to as Bathory and there you go! |
TSRStan |
If Strahd went to the Carnival and had a really good time . . . would he stop being such a poop-head? |
Mangrum |
You're naughty. |
TSRStan |
I know. Seriously, though. |
Mangrum |
Actually, if people can get to an Adventurer's Guild store, the adventure featuring Carnival also features Strahd, to turn this into an actual plug. |
TSRStan |
What effect if any could the Carnival have on very powerful evil creatures? |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
It would make them very, very ugly . . . very, very fast. (Take a look at the alignments of the folks who get the shaft from the Twisting to know what I mean.) |
Mangrum |
To the serious question: Fiends are probably immune to the Twisting, so they might find themselves in a struggle to see who's got the tougher reality wrinkle. |
Mortavirus |
If we take the idea that Carnival is a Pocket Domain (which was alluded to in the book, and also what Steve Miller said above), then how is it that domain lords have the ability to enter Carnival? I remember something about Hazlik being reduced to "a mewling kitten before her" in the book. |
Mangrum |
Carnival superimposes itself on other domains, so Isolde can walk right up to darklords. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
John gave my answer in a much more concise way than I would have. |
Mangrum |
Another way to look at it, though, is that Carnival isn't exactly a domain like other domains--as seen by its good-aligned "lord." |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Hey . . . it's like a domain on a sheet of acetate! |
BLUDGEON |
Isolde's creation of abominations seems unusual for such a creature of divine goodness.' |
Mangrum |
I've got two answers, one in-game and one out-of-game . . . In-game, I tend to look at it as Divine Wrath. She's basically piling on all the failed power checks the Abomination will ever deserve. Out-of-game, it's yet again inspired by Freaks, but I won't spoil the movie by saying how. In many ways, Carnival is actually a homage to that movie. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Divine goodness? What on earth do you mean? |
BLUDGEON |
She is divine and good. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
In all seriousness, my answer is that you have to look at what KIND of being Isolde is, what she exists for. Check the first paragraph of Isolde's description. Those who become abominations are being punished for their evil ways/natures. 'Good' does not equal 'weak' or 'forgiving.' Her big sword is a rather clear symbol of that. |
Baloo |
How useful would Carnival be in a non-Ravenloft campaign? |
Mangrum |
I think it could be useful in any campaign where you want to add some horror elements. There's a good deal of RL-specific material, but it can be easily ignored. Also, there's a lot of characters you can pluck out and use without including the Carnival itself. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Quite useful, I'd say. Circuses exist in any setting. (If you wanted to use it in a waterworld, it's a big traveling boat, for example.) The premise of Isolde hunting the Gentleman Caller also works in any other setting. There really isn't anything that can't work in any other fantasy world . . . but then, that's how I feel about ALL Ravenloft products. Carnival is particularly useful because it has so many well-thought out characters in it. IMO, a good character generates adventures all by itself when put in contact with the PCs. And the characters of Carnival are especially good because they are walking adventure hook collections. |
TSRO_Durst |
Okay, folks, the queue is closed. Those who were on it can still ask their questions. |
Drierik |
I realize, from the description in DoD, that the Carnival is a fairly passive group. But just how passive? Would they play a more active role in, say, The Time of Unparalleled Darkness or other critical events? |
Mangrum |
The ToUD is still a long way away. We haven't yet had an opportunity to see how it would be involved in RL-shaking events. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Who knows? Maybe the people of Carnival will bring on the ToUD. |
Mortavirus |
All right, the jig is up. Mangrum, where is he, and what have you done with Pharaoh Rottentop? |
Mangrum |
I'm holding off on Pharaoh Rottentop (a Trouper cut from Carnival for space) for hopeful inclusion in Children of the Night: Ancient Dead. |
TSRO_Zugran |
Steve and John, closing comments? |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Yes . . . even if you don't buy Carnival, go to the shop and look at the cover. Todd Lockwood REALLY did a beautiful job. |
The_Red_Wizard |
The cover alone could sell the thing. |
Mangrum |
Yep, gotta agree on that cover. Anyone interested in Carnival should check out The Book of Secrets at www.kargatane.com this weekend; there's another full eight pages of Carny goodness to be found there! |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
I want to state that John deserves most of the credit for making Carnival the cool product it is. I just came in at the last minute to lend a hand. (I seem to do that a lot . . . I'm there at conception, then I'm there again at the end. They don't dare let me do things on my own, I guess.) |
Magpie |
Thanks Steve and John profusely for the insight into the product... I am going to go drool at the cover until payday. |
TSRO_Durst |
John, Steve, thanks very much for your time. |
Mortavirus |
Thanks, Steve and John, and the host Zugran for holding this. |
Mangrum |
Hope you like it when you get it! |
The_Red_Wizard |
Thanks guys, you were very informative. |
TSR_Steve_Miller |
Thanks for coming everyone! I hope you get lots and lots of mileage out of Carnival in your campaign. Just make sure no character takes the Rose on a date! |
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